The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Discussion and queries about building worlds in Blood.
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Daedalus
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The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Daedalus » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:08 pm

Greetings.

This thread is intended as a sort of "catch-all" for all general queries regarding Mapedit and its operation. Mapedit can be a challenging beast to tame, so ask your questions here, and if your faith is pure, guidance will be offered.
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Need a hint? Spill some on the Altar of Stone!

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Slayer83
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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Slayer83 » Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:33 pm

Looks like i'm the first to post a query in this MapEdit FAQ thread. :)

I'm struggling to work out why my 90° Swing Doors aren't working as desired.

I've followed all tutorials (Documents, videos) I can find and the process is straight forward enough to make the door itself.

I have the door Sector, set to 617:Rotate, with the pivot sprite placed on the pivot corner the door should rotate by.

According to all the documentation, the angle of the pivot sprite dictates the direction of the hinge. UP=Counter-Clockwise, DOWN=Clockwise.

However, my door behaves very oddly and not at all like ive seen in the videos.

Firstly, my door starts OPEN in game, but it's closed in the editor, even though the STATE is OFF.

If the Pivot is UP, the door starts open, and rotates a 270° through the wall when triggered.
If the Pivot is DOWN, the door starts open but the other side, in the back sector, closing backwards 90°.

Any ideas what i'm missing here?

This is in both Mapedit and Xmapedit btw!


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Solved!

What wasn't clear, and I've discovered after much fiddling around with MapEdit is that there are TWO 'angle rotation' keys.

< and > which is what i'm used to using for sprite rotation, and was using for the Axis Marker.

But there is also [ and ]....this is what finally gave me the - and + angle numbers needed that dictate the direction the door spins.

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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Daedalus » Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:42 am

And here I was terribly excited until I saw you found the solution. Welcome aboard! I'm glad it worked out.
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Need a hint? Spill some on the Altar of Stone!

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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Slayer83 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:57 am

Well i'm back with another query.
This time to do with Sector-Over-Sectors.

I have a simple ROR, with a corridor directly above another, coming off the main ROR room.
(hopefully i'm explaining that clearly)

I then built a couple of sectors in the main room as crates, with the idea of climbing them to reach the upper corridor, that's leading away from the upper stack room.

In game however, I can't jump, when i'm on the crate sectors, instead the invisible ceiling keeps me in the lower stack.

But, if instead, I build a same size crate out of sprites, not a sector, I can climb that and jump up into the upper stack fine.

I discovered this solution when looking at how E2M1 did it with the cargo hold of the shipwreck....the crate lift being a sprite.

Is there a way to reach upper stacks via sectors?

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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Daedalus » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:34 pm

Describing these scenarios in words can sometimes lead to things getting quite complicated and confusing, but if I'm interpreting this correctly, it sounds like you have a main sector with two corridors leading away from it. This would mean that the large sector has an "upper or lower stack (or link)" in it.

If I am understanding that correctly, then be very cautious with this. Sector stacking is extremely intolerant towards complex wall and sector angles, and as a rule you should definitely try to keep stacking as simple as possible with regards to the "tile 504" sector. Multiple sectors within sectors with tile "504" applied will not work regardless.

So what I am suggesting here is that your issue is a non-issue in as much that you're not attempting to build sector stacks correctly.

Feel free to drop images if it will help your case and I'm far off from understanding this correctly, otherwise I love talking about Mapedit and Blood, so we can also go in circles until it's right if I'm getting it wrong.
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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Daedalus » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:43 pm

Stacker.png
Stacker.png (10.48 KiB) Viewed 4691 times
Addendum to the above. The left example above will work. The right example will never work.
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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Slayer83 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:21 pm

Here are some screenshots to better illustrate what i'm describing.

Image
This is the lower stack, with the 504 ceiling.
The corridor comes off of the N wall.
The two crates on the side are two child sectors.
The middle crate is made of 5 sprites.

Image
This is the upper stack, with the 504 floor.
The corridor comes off the N wall.

Image
XMapedit Preview and Blood show both sectors stack fine visually. No Hall of Mirrors.

As I say, if I stand on the crate sectors, I can't physically jump through Ceiling (LS) up into Floor (US).
However, if I stand on the middle Sprite crate, I am able to jump through the ceiling/floor and into the upper corridor.

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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Daedalus » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:53 pm

I can't speak much on XMapedit specifics, as I haven't had time to explore its mysteries.

However, what I am seeing here is a lack of indications of the "child sectors", the sectors making up crates, having their own upper/lower stack flags. Every single sector in a series of RoR sectors must have this flag in order for the player to pass through them.

So the answer here seems to be simply that it is behaving as expected: your primary sector allows player passage as it is correctly marked with the upper and lower stack sprite. The crates do not allow it as they do not have the accompanying sprites to flag them.
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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Slayer83 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:14 pm

So, what I'm getting from this:

If you want to reach an upper sector from the lower, use a Sprite surface.
Everytime this has been done (jumping up into a different sector), sectors weren't used.

E2M1 was a sprite crate lift.
Lighthouse in Cryptic Passage 1 was a sprite bed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- If I put two lower link/stack sprites in the crate sectors, then when I jump on them in game, i'm teleported to the middle of the upper stack floor, opposite the upper corridor.
Makes sense, as that is where the Upper Stack sprite is, so the lower ones all go to that one!

- If I place matching Upper Link/Stack sprites in the upper sector where the lower crate sectors would be but without making duplicate sectors in the upper sector, then in game/Xmapedit there's a Hall Of Mirrors effect and the stack glitches out.

-If I build identical child sectors in the Upper sector and place matching Upper Link/Stack sprites in those sectors, then Blood crashes whentrying to load the map with error:

"Lower Link Sector 4 doesn't have mirror picnum!"

The only thing that works flawlessly is when I stand on the sprite crate and jump.

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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Daedalus » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:26 pm

A good takeaway from the exchange, yes. You must always use sprites if you want to construct something towards the centre of the sector with the 504 texture. Perhaps in future iterations the ports will be more tolerant of things, but retail Blood is, as always, quite fussy in these situations and will not tolerate multiple sectors in series with the 504 texture.

It is worth noting, however, that when you delve into underwater situations, i.e. when you use the water texture and not "transparency", you will then need to mark each and every sector with a "upper/lower" marker.
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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Slayer83 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:46 pm

It is worth noting, however, that when you delve into underwater situations, i.e. when you use the water texture and not "transparency", you will then need to mark each and every sector with a "upper/lower" marker.
Makes sense.
Pretty much the same as how it works with Duke Nukem's Build, where every sector that you could possibly surface out of the water needs it's own SE sprite.

On a different topic, is there a way to create a delay between a button/switch...and it's associated action?

I have a Z-Motion Door set to RX:100, with a Toggle Switch sprite set to TX:100.

Pulling the switch opens the door immediately but I can't find a way (if it's even possible) to put a delay in.

I've tried all the Busy Time, Wait Time, etc on both switch and Z-Motion sector...nothing delays the door opening when you pull the switch.

The only thing I could think would be to do a hack approach where the switch opens a hidden door, with the opening speed set to the delay time, and then the door when open, opens the visible door.

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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Daedalus » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:02 pm

I wouldn't outright call that a hack, but there are many ways to kill a cultist, and there are many solutions to this.

The most efficient solution would be to modify the switch that controls the door. A door cannot intrinsically have delays on its own.

Try the following to get your brain pondering on the puzzle: create the switch and obviously have it transmit to the door. Set the switch to send the command when going off, rather than when going on. Give the switch a wait time. This means the following:

SEND (the command) WHEN (the switch) goes into an OFF STATE, which occurs after the (wait time):
Delayed Switch.png
Delayed Switch.png (23.56 KiB) Viewed 4669 times
Note that for a few reasons this might not be the prettiest solution (it is however the "cheapest"). I can of course offer more guidance for making it neater and feel nicer, but perhaps this will help you make headway and set you to thinking terms that will bring forth Blood's glory.
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Need a hint? Spill some on the Altar of Stone!

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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Lizzieborden » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:38 pm

don't mean to add irrelevant stuff here. But I have to say i am in AWE at how thorough you guys are.
Image
Dixit Lizzieborden

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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by RoosterMange » Sat Jan 20, 2024 10:06 am

I'm having trouble getting into map making. So far I have notes with a ton of controls written down and I always need to consult them to do anything. All I've been able to do is build a few rooms, and a lot of the tutorials I've seen are long-winded and don't really answer my questions aside from basic controls. For example, I want to make a train level similar to the Phantom Express but with my own spin on it, with features like being able to run on top of the train and have some unique cars like one filled with explosives. I don't really know where to begin with such a level, and the XMapedit manual doesn't appear to have any chapters on this as far as I'm aware. All I know about e1m3 is that the floor was considered lava by the game's logic, which is why it dealt damage. Other than that, I'm pretty lost right now.
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Re: The Grand Mapedit Assistance Compendium

Post by Daedalus » Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:55 am

Greetings, RoosterMange. Welcome to this quiet assembly.
I agree that while these days there is quite a lot of information out there, it is not presented in a way which facilitates actual learning. I hope to address it with a guide of my own some day, but alas, I have many projects on the go at all times, so it is something of a long-term goal.
Regarding your question, that is quite ambitious for a first project, but I will be happy to assist you in any and all trouble you might run into, be it conceptually, mechanically, or whatever you could really need help with.

Blood's train levels are something of an illusion in which there is no real movement happening in the map and it is simply the floor texture panning combined with a damaging effect being applied to it. That is really easy to achieve and it's something you don't need to dwell on at this point. Those actual effects can be the very last thing you add to the map and it will take only a few minutes to accomplish.
More difficult to approach would be actually designing the level. As a new mapper, I would strongly suggest that you work from the outer perimeter of the map towards the interior. This is a general rule of thumb, especially for maps with a large exterior environment as you're trying to do. So start with creating the outer environment, which would basically be a giant rectangle with maybe a little bit of terrain detail and then make your way towards building the train.

There is a limit on wall lengths in Blood, which is 45056 units, so be sure to add points to your perimeter walls so that they don't exceed that length or very evil things will happen.

I would advise this basic approach to building your train map:
  1. Build your (likely rectangular) perimeter
  2. Make a small environment for the train to be "passing by" - this can be as simple as a grass texture
  3. Build the 'track' sector, which can also be a texture along a rectangle
  4. Build the individual train carts and populate them with all the various things you'd like
Note that it is possible to extract retail maps and examine them. They are a very good point of reference for if one is unsure of things, and you can examine Phantom Express in Mapedit if you'd like to dissect things a bit further that way.

Finally, as general principles, make backups frequently, temper your expectations and don't think you're going to make the best map ever on day 1, and have some patience with Blood, since making maps takes time in it.

I will be happy to walk through this process with you on your journey if you would like to provide future updates or discuss things, so do not hesitate to consult me (us) on anything here, great or small.

Let me know if anything I said above is not clear and I'll expand further or try explain a bit better. As a final note, I use Mapedit and am probably one of the few fossils that hasn't moved over to XMapedit just yet, so I won't be able to advise much on that front.
Farewell for now.
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Need a hint? Spill some on the Altar of Stone!

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